Tuesday, June 09, 2009

Greetings and Salutations

Well bumbling around on a certain social networking site and I came across an argument and I just wanted to continue the discussion, because I've been a lazy bastard and haven't paid close enough attention to this space. Names have been removed. Here it comes.....

OG- And most have come crawling in begging for help from the gov. What a-hole criticizes Obama after <6 mo. in office, especially after Bush?!?!

A-Bush had his issues but he didn't bankrupt the country and sell off publicly traded companies to the unions and the Chinese. In the 6 months this clown has been if office, he's put this country in a horrible crisis and been applauded for it. He's the a-hole.

OG- you have been living in the US for at least the last decade, yes? We have to make a deal with the Chinese so they don't call us on trillion dollar loans based on all the phony money (i.e. unsubstantiated with the gold standard to back it up) printed up over the last eight years. The country has been in a crisis for much longer than six months, so much so that we won't even begin to see the effects of what happens in the next 4-8 years for probably another decade.

And to say that Bush, who is highly regarded by the majority of the WORLD, bi-partisan, foreign and domestic, as the worst leader in the history of our country, is a bit of an understatement.

A- Obama just threw another trillion dollars into the treasury about a month ago. If this newly printed money makes it into the economy you're going to see hyper-inflation.

"Selling" GM to the Chinese via the loans we've received from them is not a good option, particularly when they're unwilling to stand up for us (or their own interests worldwide, particularly in the US) by telling N. Korea to step off. They're in it for world control, and with Obama's help they're well on their way.

OG- China owns trillions of US interest--this has not happened in the last six months. I'm not sure if the stimulus plan was the right choice, but it was the best choice given the circumstances that were handed to Obama. I don't know yet if he'll be a successful President (though I do think he will be), because it's too early to make that decision. But it's a fact that he's made better informed decisions in the last six months than that fucking Muppet did the entire eight years he was in office.

4lom- Ah I miss political debates. Republicans blaming Democrats for what was a brilliant idea when they were in charge. We have a moderate President who's doing his best to handle a situation. I'm not saying I've thought every choice to be the best, but this printing money garbage is laughable. Talking points aren't facts fellas, they're just someone's interpretation of fact spun to make their argument. No one is selling the country to China. Read more actual news, less Rush.

A- Haven't heard Rush in a long time - sorry to disappoint.

I'm aware that China has owned a great deal of US interests for quite some time... but the amount of debt we're carrying with them now is just plain scary. Obama likes to say he inherited this deficit. He inherited a deficit - but he created this one, the one that's projected to be 4 times... Read More higher by the end of 2010. That's all him. That's reckless spending.

Bush had to play the hand he was dealt. So does Obama. Both have had things to deal with early in the presidency that aren't all roses and blue skies. It can be argued that neither one of them did the right thing. Bush cost us in casualties and world perception and Obama is costing us in the wallet, and in our patriotism, and in our heritage. He's not a moderate. He's a progressive - way left of liberal. And he sure does like to see himself on TV.

This will be my final post, just because we're not agreeing and could probably both go on for days and days--and please do add a final one yourself as well. I'm glad that we disagree--I think people have been very complacent for a long time (myself included), and I think going back and forth like this to some degree will make everyone think and ... Read Morehopefully generate new and better ideas and ways of thinking about politics and the way to run a country.

So...in closing--
Obama's stimulus package is simply a recapitalization; in the simplest sense, it takes money to make money. I agree it's not perfect, but I also think that it probably is the best solution that has been presented, as it appears that this will create new jobs, better infastructure within the country, and newly found research and innovation into technologies that have been severely lacking in this countries for decades. This is a strategy that has not only saved many big corporations but also spurred new growth. If you look

at the country like a business, which essentially it is, then this argument begins to make more sense. Like any corporation, it's tough to make projections to see where we'll be in 5 years or 10 years, but for right now this seems to make the most sense for where we're at and where we would like to be as a nation.

Bush's reign of terror is over, ... Read Moreand we don't need to touch on the tragedies, backhandedness, and outright lies he made while in office. I will say that the economy had a surplus before he got there, and the biggest debt ever when he left. I'm terrible at math, but I know I'd rather have my bank account be more like the former than the latter.

I really don't understand where the way left comment comes from--but perhaps a moderate seems more like a progressive when we've just come out of the most conservative right wing administration of all time. One of the reasons that I voted for Obama is because of his leadership skills, which also include communicating to the masses

through TV, radio, Twitter, email, and dozens of other platforms. It's a fact that more people have voted in this election than ever before in history, and I would wager to say that by the end of it people will be more politically aware, regardless of whether or not they agree with every decision Obama will have made.

I started this rant, so Mr. Allen may have closing arguments. Thanks for the dialogue.


4lom- You need to bone up on your political babble. Progressive AND liberal are relative terms. Progressive is not left of anything Progressive means working toward progress or in political speech a reformer(there's conservative progress too, we just haven't seen any of note in the past decade). Liberal means on the side of abundance, in political ... Read Morespeech someone who believes that the right of favor is granted toward the individual. Neither of these terms even reasonably touch on the difference between left and right or republican vs. democrat which are again completely different concepts of speech.
But we all like to see him on TV, he looks respectable. I'd like to hear what the hell you're talking about when you mention heritage and patriotism. How in any way does an American citizen elected by the people of the country, who is currently leading us respectfully affecting our heritage or patriotism?

I'm starting the topic on MY blog. Because it's been in a state of hiatus for some time now. You may both feel free to express any number of comments on my blog madnesscounseling.blogspot
.com. I realizes mid-type that Brian was done with the topic, but I'd like my question of heritage given some due from KC. I love a good discourse.

So this was just a comment string. I received no permission to print these comments, but hey, they're just words on a page and I've not attributed anyone's name to protect their position and I've also only referenced this entry at the source which would already be readable with names attributed to those that could see it. This is fun! Cross post from hell. Anyhow, I just want to see if I get a response from the fella labeled A and I'm also interested in anything someone else who falls on this page might have to add to the conversation.

The only other addition I have is that I kind of was a little harsh about my assessment of the language, but I'm kind of annoyed when people throw around silly political terms because most of them aren't based in any more reality than the politicians that utilize them.


Grumpy Marine said...

Interesting thread, man! I do want to say that Bush wasn't radically conservative. He WAS very socially conservative, which I could give a rat's hind parts about, but he expanded government and spent money like he had a grove of money trees planted around the capital. Not fiscally conservative at all! Homeland security, it could be argued, may have been a necessary expansion but I'm not so sure. He also did a lot of underhanded things while in office that I'm not going to argue about. The repubicans have lost their conservative ways, particularly fiscally, and will struggle until they can find them again.

Dr 4LOM said...

I can agree with that.