Greetings and Salutations

Well bumbling around on a certain social networking site and I came across an argument and I just wanted to continue the discussion, because I've been a lazy bastard and haven't paid close enough attention to this space. Names have been removed. Here it comes.....

OG- And most have come crawling in begging for help from the gov. What a-hole criticizes Obama after <6 mo. in office, especially after Bush?!?!

A-Bush had his issues but he didn't bankrupt the country and sell off publicly traded companies to the unions and the Chinese. In the 6 months this clown has been if office, he's put this country in a horrible crisis and been applauded for it. He's the a-hole.

OG- you have been living in the US for at least the last decade, yes? We have to make a deal with the Chinese so they don't call us on trillion dollar loans based on all the phony money (i.e. unsubstantiated with the gold standard to back it up) printed up over the last eight years. The country has been in a crisis for much longer than six months, so much so that we won't even begin to see the effects of what happens in the next 4-8 years for probably another decade.

And to say that Bush, who is highly regarded by the majority of the WORLD, bi-partisan, foreign and domestic, as the worst leader in the history of our country, is a bit of an understatement.

A- Obama just threw another trillion dollars into the treasury about a month ago. If this newly printed money makes it into the economy you're going to see hyper-inflation.

"Selling" GM to the Chinese via the loans we've received from them is not a good option, particularly when they're unwilling to stand up for us (or their own interests worldwide, particularly in the US) by telling N. Korea to step off. They're in it for world control, and with Obama's help they're well on their way.

OG- China owns trillions of US interest--this has not happened in the last six months. I'm not sure if the stimulus plan was the right choice, but it was the best choice given the circumstances that were handed to Obama. I don't know yet if he'll be a successful President (though I do think he will be), because it's too early to make that decision. But it's a fact that he's made better informed decisions in the last six months than that fucking Muppet did the entire eight years he was in office.

4lom- Ah I miss political debates. Republicans blaming Democrats for what was a brilliant idea when they were in charge. We have a moderate President who's doing his best to handle a situation. I'm not saying I've thought every choice to be the best, but this printing money garbage is laughable. Talking points aren't facts fellas, they're just someone's interpretation of fact spun to make their argument. No one is selling the country to China. Read more actual news, less Rush.

A- Haven't heard Rush in a long time - sorry to disappoint.

I'm aware that China has owned a great deal of US interests for quite some time... but the amount of debt we're carrying with them now is just plain scary. Obama likes to say he inherited this deficit. He inherited a deficit - but he created this one, the one that's projected to be 4 times... Read More higher by the end of 2010. That's all him. That's reckless spending.

Bush had to play the hand he was dealt. So does Obama. Both have had things to deal with early in the presidency that aren't all roses and blue skies. It can be argued that neither one of them did the right thing. Bush cost us in casualties and world perception and Obama is costing us in the wallet, and in our patriotism, and in our heritage. He's not a moderate. He's a progressive - way left of liberal. And he sure does like to see himself on TV.

OG- This will be my final post, just because we're not agreeing and could probably both go on for days and days--and please do add a final one yourself as well. I'm glad that we disagree--I think people have been very complacent for a long time (myself included), and I think going back and forth like this to some degree will make everyone think and ... Read Morehopefully generate new and better ideas and ways of thinking about politics and the way to run a country.

So...in closing--
Obama's stimulus package is simply a recapitalization; in the simplest sense, it takes money to make money. I agree it's not perfect, but I also think that it probably is the best solution that has been presented, as it appears that this will create new jobs, better infastructure within the country, and newly found research and innovation into technologies that have been severely lacking in this countries for decades. This is a strategy that has not only saved many big corporations but also spurred new growth. If you look

OG- at the country like a business, which essentially it is, then this argument begins to make more sense. Like any corporation, it's tough to make projections to see where we'll be in 5 years or 10 years, but for right now this seems to make the most sense for where we're at and where we would like to be as a nation.

Bush's reign of terror is over, ... Read Moreand we don't need to touch on the tragedies, backhandedness, and outright lies he made while in office. I will say that the economy had a surplus before he got there, and the biggest debt ever when he left. I'm terrible at math, but I know I'd rather have my bank account be more like the former than the latter.

I really don't understand where the way left comment comes from--but perhaps a moderate seems more like a progressive when we've just come out of the most conservative right wing administration of all time. One of the reasons that I voted for Obama is because of his leadership skills, which also include communicating to the masses

OG- through TV, radio, Twitter, email, and dozens of other platforms. It's a fact that more people have voted in this election than ever before in history, and I would wager to say that by the end of it people will be more politically aware, regardless of whether or not they agree with every decision Obama will have made.

I started this rant, so Mr. Allen may have closing arguments. Thanks for the dialogue.

Respectfully,
NAME OMITTED

4lom- You need to bone up on your political babble. Progressive AND liberal are relative terms. Progressive is not left of anything Progressive means working toward progress or in political speech a reformer(there's conservative progress too, we just haven't seen any of note in the past decade). Liberal means on the side of abundance, in political ... Read Morespeech someone who believes that the right of favor is granted toward the individual. Neither of these terms even reasonably touch on the difference between left and right or republican vs. democrat which are again completely different concepts of speech.
But we all like to see him on TV, he looks respectable. I'd like to hear what the hell you're talking about when you mention heritage and patriotism. How in any way does an American citizen elected by the people of the country, who is currently leading us respectfully affecting our heritage or patriotism?

I'm starting the topic on MY blog. Because it's been in a state of hiatus for some time now. You may both feel free to express any number of comments on my blog madnesscounseling.blogspot

.com. I realizes mid-type that Brian was done with the topic, but I'd like my question of heritage given some due from KC. I love a good discourse.

So this was just a comment string. I received no permission to print these comments, but hey, they're just words on a page and I've not attributed anyone's name to protect their position and I've also only referenced this entry at the source which would already be readable with names attributed to those that could see it. This is fun! Cross post from hell. Anyhow, I just want to see if I get a response from the fella labeled A and I'm also interested in anything someone else who falls on this page might have to add to the conversation.

The only other addition I have is that I kind of was a little harsh about my assessment of the language, but I'm kind of annoyed when people throw around silly political terms because most of them aren't based in any more reality than the politicians that utilize them.

Don't Trust The Banks

They're not actually about helping anyone...
Read this

SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Mercy James thought she had lost her rental property here to foreclosure. A date for a sheriff’s sale had been set, and notices about the foreclosure process were piling up in her mailbox..

Ms. James had the tenants move out, and soon her white house at the corner of Thomas and Maple Streets fell into the hands of looters and vandals, and then, into disrepair. Dejected and broke, Ms. James said she salvaged but a lesson from her loss.

So imagine her surprise when the City of South Bend contacted her recently, demanding that she resume maintenance on the property. The sheriff’s sale had been canceled at the last minute, leaving the property title — and a world of trouble — in her name.

That's right.  The bank just gave up.  They knew they couldn't get a buyer via auction so instead of doing anything, they just gave the property back.  But they very kindly waited to tell the owner until.. well they never actually told the owner.  What good would that do?  

Suicide

I really wish I knew what this was about:

Last year the Army had its highest suicide rate on record -- 140 soldiers. But new data from the Army on Wednesday showed the number jumping even higher. Forty-eight soldiers have already killed themselves so far this year. If that rate keeps up, nearly 225 Army soldiers will be dead by their own hand by the end of 2009.

What's happening over there?

Poor Rush

Just doesn't get the technology. Perhaps he should go back to windows 3.1.

Rush Limbaugh falsely claimed that Democrats "have reformatted the [economic recovery] bill -- they've made it a PDF file when they posted it. ... And, so, you can read every page, but you cannot keyword search it. It's not a text file as legislation normally is as posted on these public websites. They don't want anybody knowing what's in this." In fact, as Adobe Systems notes of PDFs: "You can run a search using either the Search window or the Find toolbar. In either case, Reader searches the PDF body text, layers, form fields, and digital signatures."

mmm that Ctrl-F thing is kind of confusing. Why can't I have a plain text version instead of this fancy prettied up version that you can't edit? Moron.

Jindal

Ok, I stayed away from this topic yesterday because.. well to be honest, I hadn't seen Obama's speech and I certainly hadn't heard the response. Well now that I have ... I have to say I completely agree that Jindal was an absolute tool in his response.

This article by Krugman suggests how silly the whole "volcano monitoring" comment was:

So what did Bobby Jindal choose to ridicule in this response to Obama last night? Volcano monitoring, of course.

And leaving aside the chutzpah of casting the failure of his own party’s governance as proof that government can’t work, does he really think that the response to natural disasters like Katrina is best undertaken by uncoordinated private action? Hey, why bother having an army? Let’s just rely on self-defense by armed citizens.

The intellectual incoherence is stunning. Basically, the political philosophy of the GOP right now seems to consist of snickering at stuff that they think sounds funny. The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead.

From my own perspective, he did seem to blame a large part of our current circumstance on bad republican policy. Then he turned around and said that the new government should listen to that same answer again. Look the whole deregulation, let the market rule itself bullshit is old news. It doesn't work. It never has. Look at the tycoons of the pre-depression era. Today's corporate viewpoint is exactly the same. We just hide monopolies under the guise of technologies and seamless integration. The fact is, a lot of people did a lot of misguided things that caused our situation. Talking down to us like we're children who didn't play the game right isn't how to fix the problem.

Oh and that whole Kenneth response was hilarious. And Jimmy Fallon is a terrible late night host. That is all for now.

Will you get your mind out of the gutter already?

I swear these people are just perverts.  Everything they see equates to sex and how bad it is.

http://coloradoindependent.com/22701/schultheis-hiv-testing-for-pregnant-moms-rewards-sexual-promiscuity

Democrats were outraged Wednesday morning when Republican state Sen. Dave Schultheis said he planned to vote against a bill to require HIV tests for pregnant women because the disease “stems from sexual promiscuity” and he didn’t think the Legislature should “remove the negative consequences that take place from poor behavior and unacceptable behavior.” The Colorado Springs lawmaker then proceeded to cast the lone vote againstSB-179, which passed 32-1 and moves on to the House.

This is the same bullshit that prevented young woman from learning about the HPV vaccination. They felt it would some how give those girls the urge to have premarital sex.  What the fuck is wrong with these people?  HIV doesn't "stem from sexual promiscuity" you fucktard!  It's a virus that kills regular humans everyday.  Idiots. 

Republican Party...

Still a bunch of racist assholes:

http://wonkette.com/406562/406562

The mayor of a tiny Republican hamlet in Southern California’s Orange County — just across the 605 from Long Beach — thought it was super funny to send around a picture of the White House surrounded by awatermelon garden, because gosh, the watermelon is simply a very funny thing, in almost any setting. Watermelons! The very word is fun, and certainly not racist. There was also a caption on the funny picture, of watermelons surrounding the White House: “No Easter Egg Hunt this year.” Ha ha, because Muslims don’t celebrate Easter, right? (Sure, they celebrate Good Friday, but anyway ….)

That this actually happened and isn't some stunt by the Onion is really the sad truth about this country.

Absolutions

I believe Megadeth predicted this one:

That's right... the Catholic church has decided to reinstate indulgences.

For those unfamiliar... this was the giving of absolution for sins that the Pope would grant if you paid the Catholic church.  It was essentially buying your way to heaven.  It was one of the primary reasons Martin Luther caused the split of Christianity forming the Protestant side of Christian denomination.  If you look closely at the side of the podium you can see the cost for each sin.   Nice one Dave.

Bristol

While I had hoped the media would move on from this poorly named family, the Palins have another child, this one called Tripp. And Bristol just did her best to tell the truth about her difficult situation before Sarah jumped in to remind the media of her mad jumble of BS talking points. This Salon article frames the interview pretty well, I encourage you to read it.

Some highlights:

Fox instead couched much of the story as a cutesy-poo introduction to Tripp (who seems temporarily to have replaced Trig, Sarah Palin's night-owl infant, as the family football), whom Bristol described as both "awesome" and "very, very, very cute."

...

I guess not. Van Susteren then did ask her, in a roundabout way, about whether she had a religious or philosophical objection to contraception. Bristol said, "No, I don't want to get into detail about that." And then came the line that would come to stand in for the whole interview: "Everyone should be abstinent or whatever, but it's not realistic at all."

...

But the whole awkward purity of Bristol's interview got wrecked once Mama Palin purportedly "surprised" the pair by entering the room holding Tripp, offering him to her daughter and asking, "You want this joy?"

Gov. Palin opened by claiming to be "proud of [Bristol] wanting to take on an advocacy role and just let other girls know that it's not the most ideal situation but certainly you make the most of it." It was like the elder Palin had put her daughter's words through a meat grinder: What Bristol had said was that she wanted to let other girls know that they should wait 10 years, that their lives would shift beneath their feet.

"Bristol is a strong and bold young woman," Palin said, as Bristol sat quietly -- after her mother entered, she barely spoke further -- "and she is an amazing mom, and this little baby is very lucky to have her as a momma. He's gonna be just fine. We're very proud of Bristol." Palin was missing the point, or part of it, or perhaps making it even louder: Bristol's self-professed desire to prevent teen pregnancy is not just about whether this little baby is going to be just fine, it is about whether his momma is.

...

So the bigger message here, as spun by Greta Van Susteren and Sarah Palin, is that abstinence is a naive peg on which to hang our contraceptive hopes, but that when our daughters reproduce before they finish high school, we need to move beyond it -- not to discussions of birth control and abortion, but to the fact that the Palins are an unusually big, helpful, supportive group, and that other less fortunate young mothers should go out and get multigenerational families to help them out because it's not the government's responsibility.

How perfectly, sadly nonsensical. And how poignant that the untrained and unrehearsed and inelegant message of the young woman who actually had the baby, the one who said, "I think everyone should just wait 10 years," made far more sense than the politicized jabbering of her elders.